I'm speechless

"nj959" (nj959) 05/07/2018 at 17:24 • Filed to: None

0

17

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I don’t hold strong opinions on guns one way or the other, but this feels like it should be an Onion headline.

Most American car for your time.

Spanfeller is a twat > nj959 05/07/2018 at 17:33

3

Do you really expect a lot from the NRA? Nowadays they just need someone to shout and shamefully Donald Trump is otherwise encumbered.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > nj959 05/07/2018 at 17:34

1

“Oliver North is a legendary warrior for American freedom, a gifted communicator and skilled leader,” NRA Chief Executive Wayne LaPierre said in a statement. “In these times, I can think of no one better suited to serve as our president. ”

Wait, is he hinting at a possible 2020 run?

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > nj959 05/07/2018 at 17:39

1

meh....nothing surprises me anymore

(cept the stupid fuckin cat that trips me up on the stairs bout once a week....)

Monkey B > nj959 05/07/2018 at 17:41

2

well, selling guns is kinda his thing...NRA exists to help sell guns.

Noah - Now with more boost. > nj959 05/07/2018 at 17:46

7

That’s absolutely nuts. Polarizing stuff like this is exactly what’s wrong with the identity politics driven atmosphere in this country right now. This is obviously gonna turn into a gun control thread so here are my preemptive two cents. This is long, I apologize... but would love some feedback from our resident conservatives (Atlas? Atlas!? BEULLER!?) because I’m really tired of being told I’m nuts by people who are just terrified of guns and don’t know much about them. Not that I’m an expert. But here goes nothing...

I am a diehard liberal except for when it comes to guns and gun control, then I’m more of a “Vermont Democrat” in that I think any and all regulation regarding limiting rights of hobbyists (lets be real... that’s who we are hurting with these laws) to buy and shoot whatever is totally ridiculous an inappropriate. Background checks? Sure, all day. We need different policies there. But if someone’s passion is shooting, and they don’t make much money but save and save and save for cool parts for their AR or new stuff for their collection... and you’re just going to take his hobby away over some fear mongering? His or her passion in life? Are you kidding me!?

It sucks that we can’t have nuanced, relaxed conversations about guns and gun control. Other liberals think I’m insane. I have no interest in owning guns or even shooting them but as a car enthusiast I understand what its like to have a deeply misunderstood hobby. What I try to tell people is that having an AR is like me tinkering with my WRX. It’s just good fun. Something I find fascinating: working with my hands on a piece of history/engineering/design which makes me happy.

The problem with the modern news cycle is that its all based on small sound bites that convey sentiment mean to pander to people’s preexisting fears and prejudices. Nobody on either side wants to lose their audience by being too objective. That is so fucked! And that’s why any liberal who doesn’t hunt or live in a dangerous area or have firearms as a hobby isn’t just disinterested in them, but totally terrified of anyone who owns them. It’s so unbelievably closed-minded. Makes me triggered AF (pun!) as you can tell.

Like for example. You can’t just break down the logistics of shooting up a bunch of people who are running through a doorway on the radio, all of the delicate flowers would roast NPR alive. But the reality is that making stuff like bump stocks and large clips (edit: mags, I always fuck that up. Unless you have some crazy modded M1 garand which is just awesome) illegal is comically ridiculous IMO. It isn’t just a conservative fallback to say that law abiding citizens are not the problem... its just true. And you don’t need anything fancy to murder a bunch of unarmed people rushing through a choke point. Any millennial who has ever played an FPS sim can tell you that. Just whip the handgun out and waste the entire squad, there’s so much less recoil that you can just spam. Some crazy person can do just as much damage with a semi automatic pistol + an extended clip (mag... dammit...)- which are already illegal but absolutely everywhere in gang warzones - or maybe even more. A kid can’t handle a big rifle. But 9 mil? Sure. You would never hear this on liberal talk radio or news though. That’d be conceding facts that don’t support your bias.

/rant

Congrats and I’m sorry if you actually read all that. Just wanted to post since I’ve never talked about this on Oppo before and I want to see what people think.

f86sabre > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 05/07/2018 at 18:03

0

I didn’t think that he could be President because he had been convicted, but on looking into it the ACLU helped get his conviction vacated because he had been granted immunity.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/07/2018 at 18:17

3

I respect that you’re trying to bring nuance, and that’s one thing I agree the world needs in spades today. However your position also seems to be that these gun reform proposals are founded in nothing but fearmongering and irrational fear. That’s simply not the case – guns, specifically guns that are able to fire a ton of bullets in a very short period of time, are being used at much higher rates in this country than anywhere else in the world to kill innocent people. Let’s say that wasn’t the case – that there were “common sense” laws and measures to stop people from committing these crimes – i.e. if these statistics didn’t exist, then sure people can have any and all guns they want. But that’s simply not the case. Until we are able to police our own, to not give your deranged son whose guns were confiscated his weapon back that he then took to go kill someone, etc. then I’m all for the stricter gun laws. Ways for people to own all the massive firepower they want that is stored in a private facility, which is the only place you can use them, or that you can go on administered shooting/hunting trips through orgs etc., sure fine – I really don’t care. Guns aren’t for me, but as long as its properly administered that’s all on you. But society has shown that we simply aren’t reliable enough to call the cops on our friends, to keep our guns locked that our kids don’t access them, or that we ourselves won’t flip a switch and go batshit one day without some kind of check catching us in the process.

The second amendment isn’t limitless, that is already very solidly founded. So regulating what kinds of weapons can be purchased isn’t up for debate – and I don’t think you are debating that. And the NRA has proven itself to be an insincere party with pretty clearly evident financial incentives to limit regulations. You don’t ask the drug dealers (or their lobby in this case) what the right amount of regulation on illicit drug use should be. Until these parties with deep pockets, corporate backing, and politicians on speed dial have a platform (in this case I’m not talking about just guns), the voice of the majority of the people will always be distorted.

Again – you and I can both agree that too many kids are getting gunned down in schools, yes? What controls would you suggest in preventing those? What’s the NRA suggesting other than arming more people? More people having guns COULD mean more people to potentially stop a shooter, yes – but it also means more people who can potentially lose a screw and pull out their gun. I’ll even say that if “better mental health care”, as is a popular conservative suggestion, if they actually worked towards that, made better healthcare accessible, and actually showed some progress I’m all ears to consider that. But from what we’ve seen they have absolutely zero interest in making that happen, making their position – and their NRA backings – a bit transparent.

Noah - Now with more boost. > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/07/2018 at 18:26

0

uns, specifically guns that are able to fire a ton of bullets in a very short period of time, are being used at much higher rates in this country than anywhere else in the world to kill innocent people

sure! That may be true, I don’t know the stats, but go look at Atlas’s comment on violent crime stats on pistols vs. rifles. There were many holes in my argument, I will admit that. Its a tough subject.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/07/2018 at 18:34

1

As usual he makes some apples to oranges comparison, calls it a fact, and declares victory. I’d like to see numbers on his claims. Sure, handguns used in homicides may make up a huge portion of the gun deaths – but that is avoiding the problem here. Those numbers undoubtedly contain a huge number of crime-related shootings (gangs, drug deals, etc.) and crimes of passion of people getting in to fights with people they know. While that is a problem, it is an entirely different one from people taking an arsenal to take down concert goers or a school. The senselessness and randomness of that crime, and the fact that those events are made that much worse given the types of weapons that are “better” in such instances - again, weapons that can shoot too many bullets in a short space of time (I’m trying to avoid technical jargon that I honestly don’t give a shit about, as long as this is the end result) – that is a unique scenario that he is just brushing off with hand waving.

With all due respect, given my last conversation with him last week (specifically relating to Benghazi and his claims about the person who was sent to jail for doing nothing more than making a youtube video – turns out, if you actually research the person’s prior crimes, general sketchiness, and full back story you’d realize that his claim is utter BS) I’m not going to waste my time on his baseless claims that aren’t argued in good faith.

Noah - Now with more boost. > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/07/2018 at 18:42

2

I try really hard to stay out of this kind of thing on Oppo. Yes Atlas isn’t always right but neither am I, and I do appreciate that he is not afraid to stir the pot a little and get people thinking. Unless you’re all about the facts on both sides and spend a lot of time trying to be objective its really hard to figure out what the deal is.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t vote for a ban on anything that wasn’t supposed to be for hunting, but I’m sure it would work eventually in like 20 or 30 years. I just view it as a binary thing as I think I mentioned, sorry if I’m repeating myself. We can’t take away their guns and also expect them to hear us out re: the background checks at the same time. Sure, I voted for Bernie, and I don’t like the NRA but in this totally messed up 2 party system we have going, nothing gets done when we all refuse to compromise, you know?

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > nj959 05/07/2018 at 18:53

0

Makes more sense than this candidate for Georgia Governor ad

The stupid it burns.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/07/2018 at 19:11

1

Oh I completely agree, none of this is black and white and it requires a LOT of good faith discourse between people from all walks of life to get to the best outcome. There’s a lot of misinformation out there and parties that stretch the truth or over-generalize to distort things, intentionally or otherwise. As much as I don’t care for guns I also have no interest in taking away something from someone who poses no harm to me or the population at large. Treating each fact pattern with the nuance it deserves is the only solution and there are too many interests out there trying to prevent that because they gain something out of it in the meantime.

Noah - Now with more boost. > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/07/2018 at 19:36

0

Yeah it really is soooo hard to get accurate and unbiased info on this stuff. Especially for people like us who don’t have much real world experience with guns or any interest in changing that.

Spanfeller is a twat > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/07/2018 at 20:27

0

I think only unreasonable people would want an outright ban in the United States (I personally think Article Ten here in Mexico IS JUST FINE) but a conversation about gun control should be had. Because to many it isn’t a hobby and it is outrageously underregulated anyway. Lets look at cars, for instance.

If you own a car, in most states then:
Pay a road tax
Have it inspected
Have it registered in a widespread data base
Keep certain parts stock or road legal (tyres, mufflers, etc)
Your car could have it taken away if you abuse it.

If you want to operate a private vehicle you must:
Be assessed on your proficiency as a driver
You must be above a certain age
You can have your license taken away when doing illegal shit

Plus, if you want to use your car as a hobby (say racing) you’d be detained unless you went to a private road to do so.

Think about it... Having a car in the US is much harder than having a gun, and while both can be deadly tools, only the gun is designed primarily to be so. I really like guns, as mechanical objects guns are fascinating, but we need to recognize that there’s a limit to how freely one can have such item!

I am glad many oppos defend their right to guns, and as far as I can tell all of you are responsible about it, but some people will not be responsible with guns, and I cannot blame liberals for wanting stricter controls (specially in urban areas and when talking about mentally ill people) given the huge effects guns have had in the US, actually no. The huge effect American guns have had in North America as a whole.

I think an important part of being in a society is negociating, I don’t think the NRA does this well. If gun owners were made to register their guns in electronic data bases and have their permits be backed by physical/mental examinations and also get rid of concealed carry in urban areas would be a good measure that wouldn’t ban guns and would make liberal cucks like myself feel safer. Hell, even y’all might feel safer, not every gun owner is as benign as the Oppo owners.

Spanfeller is a twat > nj959 05/07/2018 at 20:33

0

To miss quote Kanye;

The NRA doesn’t care about responsible gun owners! They only care about the corporations!

jkm7680 > nj959 05/07/2018 at 21:13

0

oopsies

(that’s all i got)

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/15/2018 at 19:10

0

Remember when lawn darts were a hobby that everyone loved.

By the design of that hobby, it tended to hurt many innocent people.

That hobby had to be heavily regulated and is no longer allowed to be sold as it once was.

When the popularity of your hobby directly relates to the deaths of innocent people, that hobby should be stopped or drastically modified.

Humans cannot be trusted to behave in a safe manner. It has nothing to do with how “terrified” you think everyone is of your hobby.

“Don’t take my guns away because I like them and you just don’t understand them,” is the deep down source of every pro-gun argument, and is the same argument a 4 year would make if you tried to make them use plastic lawn darts instead. (“Don’t take my guns away because I make a lot of money on them...” is close variation.) 

And I’m cringing at your argument for bump stocks. The amount of detail it takes you to paint a scenario that really just further enforces the need for regulation but you somehow end up at any solution being “comical” to even try to slow the literal flow of bullets out of guns has filled my fear mongering quota for the day.